Under The Rock

Charles Rockledge

@bobby, The Status Perfectus doesn't supercede the convention of Thorns. The Convention of Thorns is the foundation, the Status Perfectus is the building itself. If you build beyond the foundation, the building will collapse. Also, isn't that a 'new document'? It's a product of the 2nd Anarch revolt. We covered these arguments a long time ago.

There isn't a Barony on this earth that has survived the nights as long as ours has; or even half that long. That means the old ways, as lead us by the Bardonias and the Masons have proven the true method of victory. Screwing it up by trying to replace it with something that has already failed the Anarch cause, over and over again will not achieve the goals even stated within the document itself. And look at the wrong bits;

We declare ourselves to be free and independent, owing allegiance to no creature and no organization..
This can mean we owe no allegience to the anarch brotherhood, or to our gangs, or to our county, or any allegences as family or friends to each other, or even to countries, or to religions.
You can't have an actual sociecy without choosing some allegences.

We declare our ability to rule ourselves, with no prince, no primogen and no other ruler other than that we choose for ourselves.
so first this says "We will rule ourselves", then it says "We will choose a "ruler". Well, which is it? It doesn't have a clause "or choose no ruler, unless you apply the 'we owe our ruler no allegence'. We haven't though; elected a ruler. Have we? I certainly don't "Rule". I've set up a republic where you DO in fact rule yourselves. Would you rather have a baron who "rules"? Cause that seemed to be what upset everyone about Francois; even though he did it well; did it correctly; not as a tyrant.

We declare our kinship with oppressed Kindred everywhere and offer a home to all Kindred of all generations and clans who will agree to dwell in harmony with us.
This has come up in recent months. This doesn't specify only "All Anarchs" It specifies "All Kindred". So if setites, and giovanni, and sabbat and camarilla, are feeling oppressed by their local alpha dogs and want to live here with us, as long as they agree to do so in harmony, and uphold said agreement, we have no right to deny them. Is this so?

You see? This document has good ideals and intentions, but is very poorly written, and in need of some serious revision. It was written, in point of fact, for the Specific Anarch Free-Satate of California; which never successfully took San Fransisco, I believe; and is failing and falling right now, under it's own chaos, in the face of forign encroachment from Asia.
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"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
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Charles Rockledge · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: The Convention of Thorns

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject:

@Billy, if and when he shows up
In hindsight, Where you have a point maybe is here:

Quote:

No Kindred may be sent knowingly to his death by an elder or sire unless the security of clan or Camarilla outweighs the possible loss of unlife.

Tenna in no way endaged the security of clan Brujah or of the Camarillan Sect. This document supercedes the wather under the brindge compliance. It perhaps offers legal proof that Phillipe was wrong in the first place to believe the tradition of progeny holds any power over Tenna in these circumstances. However, this may be counter-argued that it doesn't apply to penalties of law, obviously, as we have capital punishment as well; but to missions in which an elder gives a childer a task to accomplish that only can be achieved by the death of that childe. This was done before the war and now is stated an Elder/Sire may not 'send' someone to their death on petty missions of interest only to that individual and (edit: NOT) a matter of genuine and collective security.
_________________
"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check.

Billy · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 197

well Charles you do seem to have the political savvy down.

Apologies for doubting your ability to lead.
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OOC: Chris Hoffman
"Gift of the silver tongue, they say it's the mark of a good officer and of a liar"
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