Under The Rock

V......... · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: ..

first dont put words in my mouth or tell others what i think when you have no clue whats going on in my mind. second he has not been judge guilty so by your saying he is, well is against your own laws .its hyporcritical and assinine. so stop adding in things hes done and twisting the minor punishment and makeing a death punishment on somthing that he should have medium or small punishment put on him. try to understand that maybe your veiw of the perfect anarchy is a bit much and try to pull back on how far you wanna go. because yes evil should go to the sabbat, but your white tower of good maybe should go to the cam with your frame of thought.. see how both sides are obsered and a bit over zelous.. because you are over zelous cant you see yourself and how you come across to others. the old baron was a great baron for hundereds of years and he knew where the line was.. why can you at least try to see it

V......... · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: ..

guideing the anarchy is a just veiw and job but pushing them and commanding them on your personal veiws is a bit much

Lily · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject:

Lily curiously listens to both sides, nodding every once in a while.

"You both make very interesting points.." She tilts her head, thoughtfully. She motions towards Charles.

"Baron, you think that there needs to be a semblance of order. I agree. But.." She motions towards Simon.

"I also agree with Simon in the fact that you can't force the Anarchs to abide by laws, they won't accept that. That is why they are anarch in the first place, no?" She taps her cheek with her finger, thoughtfully.

"I'm not saying some kind of law can't be set up, but you have to introduce it properly..like.." She sighs, a frown appearing on her face.

"You have to..make them believe it is the best thing, by experience. If that makes sense?" She hums thoughtfully, looking up at the ceiling.

"My sire explained it to me once. How to make people agree to something they don't agree with..he would say something like 'You have to make them believe its the best thing, using bad experiences and tragedies to fuel the fire of fear and dependancy.'"

She smiled, nodding her head satisfied with the explanation.

"He would also say that within chaos there is order, as is chaos in order. A perfect balance. Too much chaos brings destruction, and too much order brings stagnance. There seems to be so much going on, bringing more chaos. I worry that the Anarchs here are on the verge of destroying themselves. Which would be a pity, I really am begining to like this place."

She smiles, placing her hands neatly on the table and goes silent. She observes the other two's reaction.
_________________
OOC: Amanda W.

"Oh my, what lovely bugs you have!!!"

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: ..

second he has not been judge guilty so by your saying he is,

[i]so stop adding in things hes done
Why?

and twisting the minor punishment and makeing a death punishment on somthing that he should have medium or small punishment put on him.
Treason isn't something that ever should be a minor punishment. Name me one traitor in history whose sentence was anything less than exile, at best.

You are the one underestmating the seriousness of what hes done. Sending an exanguinated corpse into a kindred gathering in a public setting while hunters are actively in the process of trying to exterminate us isn't a little slap on the rist. His actions could have led to the deaths of every anarch present; Myself, Ulric, Billy, etc. You and Tenna were there and your ganglord who helped me take down the psychoporter.

because you are over zelous cant you see yourself and how you come across to others. the old baron was a great baron for hundereds of years and he knew where the line was.. why can you at least try to see it

I haven't even come close the line we had under Francois. You are after his time, you've only heard tales. Yes he was a great Baron; and a rabble of young 'new age' anarchs were on the brink of revolting against him for it. Mustache man arranged it. The Baron steped down to prove a point. I've been trying to slowly but surely get us back to that line. The one that lasted true for 300 years. and we're not there yet.

Let me tell you about 'the old days', when the masons were the cabinet and the elders offered direct oversight. This trial stuff is a new age formality. In kindred justice, in this county, for all that time ,the ganglords and their enforcers have right of destruction within their own territories; as did francios over the county itself. The gangs can pass whatever rules they like for their own territories. If a 'trespasser' violates the rules set by the gang, the ganglord or enforcer may terminate the offender, outright. Just like that. On the spot. Technically, if Billy or Eric wanted to, they have the authority under right of destruction to execute Sniffles for running an operation on their territory without their knowledge or consent, and no trial is actually required.

Yes, in this county for 300 years we had a variation of right of destruction. We also have right of hospitality under the ganglords with none needed in the freehold. A gang could in theory if it wanated to, pass feeding restrictions within it's own territory and execute anyone who violates them. The Masons are a reformer gang, as is the rose. Francois was a reformer, and I am a reformer.

All the new yong blood, didn't like all this 'tradition' so see how well they have doen without it? I've accepted the modernity of the system with institutions like cabinets and trials, but it's a bridge. Ultimatly, it must be accepted that we are the only barony to exist for longer than a century or even a few short score of years. We are the only ones from the origonal revolt. All others have died out. The new ones don't last. Hartfords is gone, Westchess is, masachutesses'.

This is because we were right all that time. Doing it our way, the masons way, led to survival unlike any barony in kindred history. The lesson should have been learned: don't chage to be like modern barony's. Stay the course isnstead. We have stood the test of time doing that way. Our status perfectus represents what the cam should be. What if they were, there'd be no need for revolt. Because they aren't we need to exist independently as anarchs. But we got it right, better than the cam, and better than all the other anarchs in the world. We got it right. Then the new blood decided to get rid of the old system and replace it with soemthign that didn't feel so 'cam-like'.

The choice should be between feeling 'alive' until the universe ends, or feeling dead when someone kills us. That choice is between doing things for the most part like they were for the past 3 centuries, or doing things like the other anarchs in the world do things.

We are unique here. We should return to our uniqueness. Distinct from all other anarchs and distinct from the camarilla too. Oh we can keep gang-based politics, and such, even trials when the crime is bigger than just one gangs territory as sniffles is, but ultimatly you stick to what works; what keeps you alive in the first place to even pursue libertas.
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"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
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V......... · Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: ..

i dont disagree with the veiw, i support it, but to clain all this and set it in peopels minds he guilty because he ment to try to kill us is wrong, lets do the trail and take all facts into consideration. he needs to be pnisheed for what he did but do it rightand not the extreme way.

oh and i have been har for as long as the old baron i just been busy/sleeping/or just didnt want to get invovled till i found myself.

me and you are alot aliek charles but lerts take it slow and steady thats all i ask. to force the punishment and ignore what the anarchy wants is foolish

Lily · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:01 am Post subject:

She nods slowly, taking in the barons words.

"Spoken well, Mr. Rockledge." She taps her cheek with her index finger thoughtfully.

"Your words are inspiring, and ultimately correct. Survival is the goal, and you seem to understand that as well as know best how to do so. Bravo!"

She grins, and claps her hands.

"I have decided that I like you sir, and how you do things! So, with that said.."

She stands from her seat, and bows to the baron.

"You will have my support in any of you endeavors from this point on!"
_________________
OOC: Amanda W.

"Oh my, what lovely bugs you have!!!"

V......... · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: ..

::sighs:: my honor wont let me just kill him, i need to play it out, i know hes done alot wrong, im not saying he shouldnt be put on trail. im saying over half what you want him dead for is not true,, the other half does diseve him punished, but death? may be exile or what he has control over will be used to repair what he helped do and then some. but kill him and be done. i cant allow myself to be ok with it, and i dont want your barrony brought to the line over him. i know theirs a cmpermises some where in this whole thing. im sure if we work together we can find out the truth and why he did those things. as well as a correct punishment other then just death

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:35 am Post subject:

"I'm not saying some kind of law can't be set up, but you have to introduce it properly..like.." She sighs, a frown appearing on her face. "You have to..make them believe it is the best thing, by experience. If that makes sense?" She hums thoughtfully, looking up at the ceiling.

Yes. Exactly. I'm not trying to force the anarchs to abide by anything, I'm trying to persuade thm to choose law and order for themselves as the most logical path to true libertas.

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: Re: ..