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Traveler



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 47
Location: Traveling

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"FREEDOM, ONE AND ALL!"

*Drinks*
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Nox



Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Nox raises his drink]

Now that I can agree with.

[Noxs takes a swig]

I admire your devotion to freedom but personally I feel that more often then not it just leads to system failure. CHOOSING to serve so that society can continue is more important than "feeling" free. A hiearchy is needed, as long as their is a chance for others to rise in the ranks. The problem with our club is that it is very rare for one of us to "retire" so the positions stay filled. This causes unrest in many who feel the system is stacked against them.

Anyway, you should be acknowledged as a Sect...I always have.

[Nox goes back to drinking]
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Eric



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:Points raised drink in Nox's general direction:

"I appreciate your support. And in the end, we have established our hierarchy as a movement and it is in very stark contrast to how the cam operate to be sure. (By the by, this is good stuff. You didn't put something in it did you?) *laughs

:Turns towards Traveler:

"Sure pal, I'd like to come down to Buffalo or wherever it is y'all host the shin-ding at. Frankly I'm a bit anxious to meet these anarchs and see how they conduct their affiliations with the neighboring cam there. Drop me a line sometime, could be fun."

:gives contact number with name:
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"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County
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Traveler



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 47
Location: Traveling

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*To Nox*
"That's the wonder of a flexible structure-if you don't like the local situation, change it. If you don't have the power to change it, leave. This country of ours has enough space to support ten times the licks we have, and the population is growing every day. When we run out of room, then we'll have to talk about how positions are chosen. Until then, why bother?"

*To Eric*
"Take a look any time you like. We have an Elysium, a community center in the Buffalo area."
*He pulls out a business card with his phone number, and writes an address on it.*

(OOC: We have a forum at http://frozenqueen.com/forum/index.php. Make an account any time you like! Email the ST account at frozenqueensts@gmail.com and I'll activate it for you (I'm one of the ASTs). Or stop by physically!)
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Eric



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:Smiling at Traveler:

"I'll stop by sometime when the night is young. I sincerely hope you're having a hospitable stay here in Rockland. I realize that a little excitement now and then helps pass the time, but sometimes it's just better to watch the grass die."

:smoking:

"We have a gathering coming up in a short while and you're more than welcome to stop by if the time serves your right."

OOC - Our game is every third Sunday of the month except on holidays. Pst the STs at

utrstaff@gmail.com

for details, directions and any inquiries. Also, they can know who's coming and get a heads up on your submitted sheet. Hope to see you there!
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County
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Nox



Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Nox seems lost in thought for a brief moment then looks over at Eric.]

Not picking a fight, just playing devils advocate. You know that your going to have to have a set form of government inorder to be viewed as a "sect". The Cam have their clear cut chain of command as does the Sabbat. You can't really say that your a Sect but how things are done depends on where they are being done. Some room for modification is always available but a core structure must be in place. Other Sects and their diplomats must know how to go about things in your territories as do the others in those Sects. To just say "things are done this way over here but totally different over there" does not convey the coheasiveness of a Sect. Plus both the Cam and the Sabbat have true overseeing leaders, such as the Justicars in the Cam. What will your sect have? Who will be the final say? Do you expect the Cam to wait while each gang leader in each territory argues before a descion is made if it ever is? I think this is something that you need to have a clear rock solid answer to before you proceed, but thats just my tactical mind at work I guess... anticipating ambushes and quagmires even in open fields.

[Nox finishes his drink and motions for another.]

No its not spiked [Nox grins] but it will get those of our longevity drunk. Care for another?
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Eric



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:Nods:

"Sure, hit me with another. Smile And I know exactly what you're conveying to me here: we as a sect need a non-compromising, infallible, laissez-faire system of government. A system where the established government works only to uphold the social-economic structure of the existing gangs and their territories, intervenes as little as possible or when foreign sect aggressors endorse means of physical force. Basically a separation of the state (The Anarch society) and the government. Theoretically, I'd like to think we've established that system or at least that notion in the direction it needed to go with or without the awareness of the Anarchs. Obviously, those who have their work cut out for themselves will be more than obliged to participate while others would rather act in their own self-interests."

:Drinks:

"You've heard of the Bardonias? They cooperate with a group of other elders in a society that, and I'm speculating here, generally follows the Avon-guard type of system. They reside in Rockland as that 'government' while the rest of us nates and noles reside here in Orange County, further pursuing our own interests and to the interests of the greater whole of this movement."
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County
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Nox



Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Two pints of brew arrive, Nox takes his and looks tword Eric.]

Well anarchy is a lawless society not society of lawlessness, at least I read that someplace. Something about individuals doing what they inheriently knew was right for society. Pretty thought but, no.

[Nox laughs]

I also remember anarchy being small decentralized commuities each with their own form of rule. Things work great this way until a better organized beast comes along. I would point you twords the native americans and the european infestation that they suffered. Did not end well for them at all.

[Nox looks around the room, squinting a bit, then leans over twords Eric.]

Noko's a bit sensitvie about that topic. Just making sure I wasn't about to get lit up...seriously she'll toss gas and a match on a fool. I think her family was blackfoot or somthing like that. Anyway...

[Nox takes another swig and pauses for a moment.]

I always thought it would be cool if the Cam did not have a Prince but rather the Primogen councile was the true government, which in many cases is true anyway. Perhapes each territory has an elected official for a anarch councile that governs "foreign" affairs. All major issues would go before them and they would then vote, majority rule. Not a true democracty but more of a democratic republic kinda feel. Still have the small decentralized communtity freedom for local issues but major theats and issues can be dealt with as well, quickly and efficently. If the native americans had such a thing in place initially perhaps things would be different today.
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Traveler



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Posts: 47
Location: Traveling

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*nods*

"What makes a sect is POWER, not the form of government. The Camarilla and Sabbat are sects because they are a large number of Kindred dedicated to supporting each other across domains, not because they have the same political system. We just need to have an agreement on the common defense, and let the people living in a place decide how they want to run it. We don't need to be organized on a bigger level then that, because we don't run into the same traps mortal governments run into. There is a set size of the army someone can send places, because of how much they feed. As long as we stand ready to defend...enough to repel something of that size, we can exist as a sect just fine, regardless of how we structure ourselves."
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Eric



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:To Nox:

"I admire the notion you're proclaiming on Cam laws Nox. Indeed, the Camarilla would do well to envelope a sense of republic elective as per their council instead of a Prince dominating the government. Surely it would be a big step up to their contrived task force of industrialized 'convenience.' If we all pronounced in such a way, there would be more to be done than would actually get done wouldn't there?"

:Takes a pint; then Traveler:

"You're right, a sect is shaped predominately by it's source of power: thus breeding the very life of it's foundation. However, where does the true source of this power stem from? Money? Politics? Keen insight? Brute force? The answer: the people. It is people, however mortal or undead they may be that provides and relinquishes the nature of power. They are ultimately fastened for any establishment, city, rural ground, economy, infrastructure, hierarchy and form of government. Every bureaucrat, politician, aristocratic, scientist, specialist, poet, lawman, and leader has been the sole product of people and by people."

:Takes a big swig as the pint measures cup:

"It is these individuals that decide who stands on such power, and who doesn't conversely voluntarily or not. Our history tells such tales."

:He is silent:
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County
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Nox



Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Nox looks twords the Traveler. His manner and speech is friendly and not at all provocative]

In a crises, who is in command? By the time you figure it out precious tacticle moments are lost and most likely so is your cause. Have all the power you want, without proper direction it is wasted.

[Nox takes a swig]

I have fought Cams, Sabbat, Anarchs, hell I even lead an uprising within the Setites. Damn oppressive Typhons learned the power of the Sutekians that day.

[Nox holds up his mug for a moment then takes another swig]

Anyway, the point I am making is that out of all the opponents I haved faced on the field of battle, the anarchs have fallen the quickest. Its not due to lack of tactics or ability mind you. I have seen some great warriors in my day from your sect. Sharp battlefield minds with strong will and able bodies. The flaw comes from a lack of coheasive overall strategy. "Get him Ray" is not a good overall strategy. A councile to act on issues that effect all anarchs and to lead in time of crisis is your best bet.

But this is just the insight of a merc. I admit to a rather militeristic outlook rather then a political outlook. I am not very good at politics so perhaps you are right and I am just overthinking the issue.

[Nox pauses]

Look, I like you guys. Just dont put yourselves in a bad spot. Its hard to change somthing once its in place so its best just to do it right the first time. You do what is best for you, and I truly wish you and your sect the best.

[Nox holds his mug out for a "toast"]
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Mr. D



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:Very Happy Raises his glass to Nox::

"Cheers"
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Eric



Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 255

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:Downs the last of his pint:

"We will no longer be in a tight spot once we've properly dealt with these Sabot insurgents. I will leave it to the Warlord and to the Tactician to spearhead this operation of a seek and destroy mission. The details will be briefed to those individuals respectively. And to those who will be aiding them."

:He ponders for a moment:

"I just have to wonder, what do the Sabot hope to possibly gain except more spawning dens and zeitgeists?? Haven't they had enough? HOW much is enough?" What sort of disillusioning possible motive are they intending to accomplish???"
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County
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Nox



Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[To Eric]

The Sabbat are violent expansionist on a mission. They will never stop until all the world is theirs, all the ancients are sucked dry, and all the mortals cow before them.
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