Under The Rock

Evan_ST · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 61

The ST staff and a few players have agreed that the current set of house rules desperately needs an update before our summer event. If you have suggestions on specific changes you would like to see reflected in our game, please post them here publicly so that others can have a chance to see and discuss whether they approve of the change or not. As your story tellers we want a cohesive set of rules that work for the greatest number of players and create a balance of power in the gaming environment.

Mr. D · Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 89

Could a list a things that currently exist in the house rules in which you want to revise be posted and discussed?

Evan_ST · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 61

As soon as Glen and I have a chance to sit down and discuss what those things are, then yes

Nox · Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 33

First An Influence Rant:

How about stripping down influences to be simple utilize only actions as listed in the core book. Toss out dark epics as they alienate the casual gamer. All actions taken make a rumor wave but no direct identification as to who did it (thats for IN game discovery and really the reason for the Subterfuge ability). Also toss out those stupid attack and defend actions...UTILIZE only. Dont make influence anymore powerfull then it already is. Plus the way you make everyone suffer for influence sux. There is a control already in place as my PC is limited to how many levels it can have (Traits). If I want to dump 10 points into two level 5's instead of an advanced out of clan then I should be allowed to as long as I have in game justification for the purchase. Just say that you can only spend one XP on influence in any one month and you can not increase the same influence two months in a row if you want to slow the speed of growth over all. By doing this you will see ALOT more influence involvment and use, specifically twords plot. You can still screw over other PC's with simple UTILIZE actions. Use Police to set up raids on locations the other guy is stashing stuff in, have your Street brutalize a mortal loved one of your high humanity opponent, even use your Bueracracy to impeed the construction of that new night club the guy you dont like is trying to build. Then let all this carry over into game. Perhaps that new night club would of been the location of a prestigous anarch event but now that its incomplete, well lets just say the territory should be gratefull that you just happened to have a place available on such short notice. This is ALOT more fun then, "I use influence X to attack player Y's influence Z."

[Readies himself for Bruces assault Smile

]

Second, A "Form Power" question:

According to your house rules technically Nox would not be able to mix Feral Claws with Skin of the Adder yet every game and event always let him. What is to be the official rule in UtR?

Lastly, retainers:

Each dot should be its own retainer. No 5pt retainers...this is PC power and should not be allowed for a background dot. Only permit retainers to perform simple downtime actions (one each). The pc may choose to increase max influence by 1 for each retainer dedicated but then this retainer can not perform downtime actions. These are conditioned or even blackmailed mortals that do your bidding. If the retainers are to be ghouls then permit them to perform complex and dangerous downtime actions but your pc comes into game -1 blood per ghoul retainer.

What about my skin suit? Fine, fair question. Have a generic suit sheet that applies to anyone using that power. Should be a template on an index card, nothing more.

Well there go my whines and moans, anyone else? Wink

_________________
Nox
(Huge Size)
(Bruiser)

Eric · Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Posts: 255

I totally agree with Ryan's proposal on influence; amend it, do away with opting for structured assault and defense properties and simply: utilize. Not everyone is going to play the influence game as a first time larper and there are even players in this game who I'm sure, don't even play the influence game at all. Presenting this healthy medium to the influence factor is a positive step for more people to actually play the influence game, as it can serve to be a crucial reinforcement to role-playing that A+ character you aspire to play.

Also, this is 2013 Anarch genre LARP, why the hell are we playing based on dark epics guidelines? The game does not present story or plot in any remote location or even flashback to that era, so why go by those rules? That's like saying play a game of backgammon with Yahtzee's dice and go by the rules of monopoly...it doesn't work! We should entirely do away with dark epics PERIOD. It's not like it's apart of our genre so why even play by it's rules?

Lastly, as far as form powers are concerned personally, I don't see why you can't combine skin with claws as skin occupies one space and claws occupy another. I think it's more when you want to combine Typhonic beast with say Horrid form that things start to get a little..messy. So to one who decides one wants lots and lots of traits by utilizing two very unique form powers to occupy the exact same spaces, (based on the powers being used) what one ends up with becomes a silly blend of both: Polyphonic squirrel meshed with Delightful form.
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County

Evan_ST · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 61

Thank you for your suggestions, please keep them coming!

Nox · Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 33

I thought a bit more on the influence suggestion I made and wanted to add to it. The main reason ST's like the silly dark epics thing is to control the growth of influence on a PC's sheet. I propose in addition to my above statement that you can only spend one XP at a time on influences and only in "odd" months (January, March, May, etc...). This means that you may never gain more then 6 total levels overall in any one year. It prevents quick growth and is easy to remember. Everything is simplified.

Also, have it that when Utilizing an area you may only perform one action. No dividing up an influence into multiple actions. Any left over levels are considered "lost" for the month (if you have Street 4 you could not do a Street 3 and a Street 1 action in the same month).

Attacking and defending influences is more of an elder game thing and not suited for our level of play.

So, will this be discussed at game or only on the forum? You guys wanted the rules updated before the summer event which is comming soon and as the forum may be the quickest way some players refuse to acknowlege its existence.
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Nox
(Huge Size)
(Bruiser)

Mr. D · Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 89

Though i've put much thought into this discussion on influences.

Dark Epics is there as a safeguard for anyone who wants to call ST favoritism, and if you wanna play the complicated influence game IC, you need to be able to deal with the complicated influence game ooc.

Your thoughts have merit, i don't know how the STs will go.

Maybe a happy ground is still use dark epics, but you may purchase more than 1 per month if you have the growth banked in multiple areas.

Nox · Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 33

I completely disagree. Simplicity is key but if dark epics is what UtR wants then by all means go with what makes you happy.
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Nox
(Huge Size)
(Bruiser)

Eric · Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Posts: 255

I think we should put it to a vote. Make a poll or do it live on whether dark epics should stay in UTR or be done with entirely.
_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County

Evan_ST · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 61

Just a few quick clarification points:

1) Dark Epics is an optional clarification to many of the rules included in the core book. Dark Ages is a book that sets rules for playing in a medieval time period.

2) Most of the discussion of rules that players want to see revised and their opinions will have to happen over the forums for time constraint reasons.

3) So far it hasn't been a problem, but please remember that there are real people with real feelings and equally valid opinions in this discussion. Be polite.

4) Though Glen and I will take into account very strongly what the majority of players would like to see in the game, because we are telling this story for you to have fun, please realize there may be reasons we make certain decisions that will help balance the game play for reasons that we can't directly discuss without violating a player's right to privacy.

5) Great ideas so far, I do hope more than 3 people will chime in.

Evan_ST · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 61

Ideas the staff are considering updates on (please note the word considering), in addition to anything mentioned by players here on this forum:

Clans always available to play

Background Growth

Influence use

Herd

Retainers

Clan Specific Disciplines

Animalism - Adv

Auspex - 1st int

Chimestry - adv

Celerity - 1st int

Fortitude - 1st and 2nd Int

Obfuscate - 2nd bas, 1st int

Obten - 1st int, adv

Presence - adv

Protean - all

Serpentis - all

Viscisitude - all

Mr. D · Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 89

Clans always available to play ----- Leave It.

Background Growth ------ Leave it

Influence use -----Leave It

Herd ------ Maybe allow for extra blood (up to 3 per) but then they are considered In recovery for 1 month per trait taken beyond first

Retainers - Leave it, either Player makes sheet or ST uses Template

Clan Specific Disciplines ---- Leave it, its in genre to need a trait of blood

Animalism - Adv ----Beast never coming back is the drawback to this

Auspex - 1st int ---- STs could be more liberal or creative with each mental spent

Chimestry - adv ------ Require ST present and if ST deems illusion unrealistic they may rule retests and or flat out disbelieves

Celerity - 1st int ---- Leave it

Fortitude - 1st and 2nd Int ---- Maybe to shorten tests, if you have both only test once for agg to nothing?

Obfuscate - 2nd bas, 1st int - leave it

Obten - 1st int, adv --- Leave it, its the same rules the local sabbat game uses

Presence - adv - ---Leave it

Protean - all ---- Leave it

Serpentis - all ---- Leave it

Viscisitude - all ------Leave It

Nox · Joined: 06 Jan 2012 Posts: 33

Clans always available to play

Genre specific really.

Background Growth

Never liked it. I always felt it was better to put a 10% rule (only one in 10 can have it) cap at level 5 on target areas with 2 level 4's permited per level 5. Example: Resources needs to be kept under control or else money will lose its value so it has been targeted as a 10% background. This means that only one in ten players will have resources 5 and there will be two resources 4 for each resources 5 (round down). Let everyone else buy up and stagnate at level 3. You want to increase your resources, get one of the others who has it at a higher level agree to give it up so you can take it...sounds like some fun IC kinda stuff, again much better then I use x to attack players y's area z.

Influence use

Already addressed this...sigh.

See above posts

Herd

Kinda lame as is but not broken. Would be nice if it at least provides 2 blood per dot instead of just one as you can safely nip 2 off of a mortal.

Retainers

Again, see above posts.

Daytime protection (the real purpose of a ghoul), win or tie on a simple will allow your ghoul to pull you to safety and escape the daytime raid.

Clan Specific Disciplines

Only one trait needs to be consumed to attune you to the clan. This one per level is just excessive.

Animalism - Adv

As per LotN and UtR clarification.

Auspex - 1st int

As per LotN, its a ST's way of introducing clues for the curious PC.

Chimestry - adv

Pretty potent power indeed. The user has to be careful to not get silly or else the target can just disbelieve the effect. Perhaps as a ballance to challange even clever users you could say if the target wins an awarness test (mental) he can suspect the effect is false allowing him to challenge the creator (social) to see through the illusion on a subsequent round.

Celerity - 1st int

I hate bomb, always have (why not asking about the potence bomb as well?) Perhaps just having this level provide some bonus traits on speed related tie resolution (and have the same effect but for strength tasks with vigor).

Fortitude - 1st and 2nd Int

Endurance is good as is. Not losing ties automatically is great. Many games in the past have said it also ignores the effects of "bruised". I think it shouldn't as there should always be something bad about being damaged.

Mettle was great when all attacks did 1 damage (save for puisance). When they increased damage potential in combat but did not boost this I was unhappy. Having it provide the additional healthy as listed along with an additional bruised would be good.

Obfuscate - 2nd bas, 1st int

Unseen presence is ok as listed as long as no one is around when you obfuscate. If even one other individual can acknowlege your presence you cannot use this power. Basically you can not go behind a pillar where only one of your attackers can see you and use this power against the rest, thats for Vanish only. Walking near someone who has awarness should allow a test to see if the awarness user suspects a something odd and then allow for additonal actions as deemed fitting (heightened senses and such).

Mask of 1,000 faces is good as listed but should be noted that it cannot "hide" the predatory nature of those on paths (negs with mortals). The everyman face "conceals" unique features and details meaning that most identifying merits and flaws are effected. It is after all a perception altering supernatural power.

Obten - 1st int, adv

UtR says that molotovs dont effect a shroud. While this is true for one it is not for 5. A team throwing molotovs will burn off the shroud. Maybe not in the first round but soon. Also, a shroud will melt away from flame thrower bursts and reform once the flame is gone. This can allow one to burn a path through the shroud, although it will reform befhind him. Fire is its weakness and its play ballance. Do not nerf its effect on this discipline.

On arms of the abyss, UtR has some pretty limiting rules on this already. I would just like to add that you should never allow tenticle armor (you know the stupidness).

UtR already addresses tenebrous form well.

Presence - adv

Summon, I would like to add the no "machine gun" summon rule. If the character escapes a summon boot party, no further use of summon by anyone will work on the character for the next scene or hour as the beast fears walking into another trap.

Majesty as UtR addresses it should be changed. While it should not be limited to a ten foot range, line of sight is just too much. Perhaps all those in the same room would be effected but not the sniper who's 200 yards away. Also, if I defeat your majesty then I should be immune to it for the next 10 minutes. Continuing on that point, if you break your majesty you can not reapply it for 10 minutes. Also clarify that interposing your majesty is an aggressive act and causes it to fail. You want to stop someone from doing something, entrance them and ask nicely Smile

Protean - all

Great as is but you should make the gangrel either follow beast form as LotN or everyone gets the cool cookietoo. It is just STUPID that gangrels get more out of their discipline then others with the same power. Should setites get more out for their form powers, how bout Tzimice in horrid form, or Lasombra in black met? Clan book crack is optional and this is one that most peeps think is automatic...it shouldn't be.

Serpentis - all

Oh don't get me started! Smile

Eyes of the serpent makes the target completely immobilized, as in he is hypnotized and cannot leave by any means as he does not want to (its a hypnotic spell). The victim is perfectly happy just staring at the eyes.

Tongue of the asp is ok as listed.

Skin of the adder is fine as listed. If I am able to use eye powers in other forms then I should be able to use hand powers in this one. Claws should be able to be used as there is no hand form going on. Horrid form can't have feral claws as its form has claws already (sharp bony spikes on the hands and back). You should not be allowed to use Skin of the adder with shape the beast or horrid form as those are body shifting powers.

Form of cobra is only good for escaping from Conan. It used to be good for killing mortals with poison but that messes up too many ST plots so now its just completly worthless. Lets fix it by compairing it to an equal power Protean: Shape of the Beast

Wolf Form: 2 traits (attentive and alert), feral claws, and improved running speed.

Form of cobra should: 2 traits (Lithe and Quick), Poisions bite (only mundane mortals die but the bite is still aggrivated to supernaturals), slip through small openings.

Keep in mind Shape of the Beast provides two options while Form of Cobra sticks you with only one. Now this is just for those that have the power but are not of Setite blood. Actual Setites get a whole bunch more crack like gangrels do Wink

Heart of Darkness is fine as is.

Viscisitude - all

Fine as listed in LotN and UtR house rules
_________________
Nox
(Huge Size)
(Bruiser)

Eric · Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Posts: 255

^^^^^^^^^^^^
You say it best, man. I agree on pretty much all accounts here. Thought I'd like to think of bomb more as a super-paper. It already kills rock and it now kills regular paper. (Scissors effectively snipping the fuse). I can see why there would be some discrepancy with this concerning the physical disciplines, but it generally seeks to employ itself simply on physical discipline warfare. The fast bomb and the tough bomb are only applicable in the respective challenge called with the respective trait.

The same can be said for ties. If you already have double ties, it ain't gonna stack. It's going to be only applicable in it's one field of expertise. Dex chops on fleetness while applying potent chops with puissance in consecutive challenges on the same round is only going to give you one tie, depending on what is being called when they're called, how the trait(s) is being implemented either as offensive or defensive and of course, based on overall resolution of the challenge.

That being said, I wouldn't mind replacing tough bomb and fast bomb in place of traits for the ease of game mechanics, but for my money I'd take a chop over traits ANY day. Cool

_________________
"Grrr...we're warriors, Kakarot. Not ballerinas!" - Vegeta to Goku in hell; before fusion dance.

OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County