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Under The Rock
A One World By Night Anarch Vampire LARP
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inblack83
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 398
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 Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| that adds an uneccesary element of a prop and paying attention... stop watch and nazi-ism is the only way to go. trust me maks. |
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Aaron Cross
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 198
Location: In your mom's bed
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree whole heartedly with you. It creates a negative enviornment, and detracts from the mood of the game. I know for a fact you never tried my method, so don't knock it til it fails.
And if it fails, at least you tried it...
I really don't see how people could fuck it up though. Give me 10 five yearolds and ill get them to demo it for you... then try yelling at them with a stopwatch and see how well they respond... first off yelling at people to shut up or putting people who like to consider their options under undue duress will create a bullshit atmosphere ( as was the original drawback of that system, bro.
Again. I think my system is worth a shot.
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Aaron Cross Warlord, SNY, Knights of Rockland
X-Enforcer "KOR"
X-GangLeader/Enforcer "Rapid Blaster"
X-GangLeader/Enforcer: "Chow Time""
X-GangLeader: "Something Violent", Lord of the North"
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Jonny Reload
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 107
Location: Bronx, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ilana: Another logistic problem is people split up in the scene, so it no longer turns into mass combat, it turns into mass challenges such as Hacking and Spying and spotting and etc. That falls apart once players split up and try and tactically gain the advantage over the scenario, which thus, breaks down again.
Mike: Absolutely not, statistically, mass combat lowers the victims chance on the second turn due to one simple concept.... Everyone can throw an opposite symbol. If everyone agrees to throw 1 rock, 1 paper, 1 scissor, the mob will always statistically win. It's simple mathmatical CHEATING that really can't be blocked due to "I didn't know what he was going to throw... Wink wink" Ya can't really prove someone has organized with 2 other players during combat that they will always throw R/P/or S.
Then again, I doubt people spend time calculating statistics and probability when it comes to these rules, but I've always hated Mass Challenges due to the fact it can easily be broken..... But it is a time saver.
See, that's where I think the problem has spawned from... Everyone using the mass Challenge Rule basically developed the mentality "Bring everyone, your mother, and your family pets to combat" Since everyone gets a challenge. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, so long as the victim gets drained of his Traits on the challenge.
I know the rule of only 5 combatants per victim, but 5 on 1, losing 5 traits, is kinda... Blah... I hate OWOD! I wish we could run OWOD with NWOD rules... Or at least adopt the card system instead of doing RPG with our Phys Traits 
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix
OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock |
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inblack83
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 398
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Shhh Speak not of this heretical NWOD. |
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Alura
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I am all for trying this prop thing and less for the neo-nazism and stop watch of doom.
You can do the whole throwing at the same time thing anyway if you're coordinating it.
Averages are averages. If you have enough squirrels attacking a target it will run out of traits and die. |
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Jonny Reload
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 107
Location: Bronx, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Mike & Maks: The prop thing helps with organization, not speeding up time... Organization is still good, but I could still do that by just lining people up in a row in order, what I was hoping more for is methods to speed up combat.
Bruce: Don't be Amish, that scene we ran on the bridge, if we used the NWOD Mechanic for combat, done in less then 10 minutes flat! That's not even a guarantee, it's a simple fact  Honestly, I miss the hybrid system of mixing OWOD and NWOD, you just take your Phys Traits, add the Appropriate Ability as a Bonus rather then Retests, and use the NWOD Mechanic as your total pool to hit.... SO MUCH QUICKER!!!
(I'd recommend and guarantee it for use of quickness in all challenges in a heart beat if OWBN didn't forbid such drastic rule changes.)
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix
OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock |
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Charles Rockledge
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 515
Location: What do you mean "location"? I'm right here!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| Mike: Absolutely not, statistically, mass combat lowers the victims chance on the second turn due to one simple concept.... Everyone can throw an opposite symbol. If everyone agrees to throw 1 rock, 1 paper, 1 scissor, the mob will always statistically win. |
Dude, this how a pack of 13th gen sabat shovelheads can take out 6th gen millenia old justicars and such. It's exactly how the concept/mechanic is supposed to work in game. No matter how powerful an opponent, the community as a single unit can always overcome when working together in usison.
| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| It's simple mathmatical CHEATING that really can't be blocked due to "I didn't know what he was going to throw... Wink wink" Ya can't really prove someone has organized with 2 other players during combat that they will always throw R/P/or S. |
It's not cheating, it's tactical stratagy. It's why gangs always have at least three members and why geng members are suppossed to come to the defence of a member who is feeling threatened in any given moment. In real life the attackers and the defender don't battle one on one each mugger taking turns. Muggers have the 3-5 circle the taget, hold him, hit him from several directions a once, over very quickly. Quick combats are our goal here.
| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| See, that's where I think the problem has spawned from... Everyone using the mass Challenge Rule basically developed the mentality "Bring everyone, your mother, and your family pets to combat" Since everyone gets a challenge. It doesn't matter if you win or lose, so long as the victim gets drained of his Traits on the challenge. |
Yes. That is the exact mentality. Especially if you are throwing us npc's with 26 attributes 5 ability retests, tens of will, etc, against our mostly 10-13 trait 2-3 retests, etc. The only thing we can do is wear your guy down until we win by attrition. This as you have seen takes forever without the mass chalange. With it takes a shorter time. The tactic either way is the same. We throw fighter after figter after fighter unil one of us finally takes the target down. The diffeence is instead of one at a time and taking all night, it five on one and take less 20 minutes tops.
Your other option is don't give us enemies we need to defeat only by attrition. Make a big enemy, have him engage mac and Aaron dividing them from the rest of the group, then have standard enemies 13ish traits fight with the rest of us on faired ground / more equal footing. So the fight doesn't automaticaly default to attrition tactics.
| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| I know the rule of only 5 combatants per victim, but 5 on 1, losing 5 traits, is kinda... Blah... I hate OWOD! I wish we could run OWOD with NWOD rules... Or at least adopt the card system instead of doing RPG with our Phys Traits |
You don't lose 5 traits, some people loose to you 1 or 2, others 1 or 2 tie, and you win on ties, you retest some of the folk who win etc. At best you loose 3 traits a round, more likey 1 or 2, but hey, 26 traits to start with, you can afford to loose a couple of traits per round, and it will still take 10 rounds befor you are able to be defeated by the typical anarch resident of rockland. This is of course without refresshing your traits with will. Do that and even mass challenge combats can last a while.
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"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check. |
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Jonny Reload
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 107
Location: Bronx, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Charles Rockledge wrote: |
Yes. That is the exact mentality. if you are throwing us npc's with 26 attributes 5 ability retests, tens of will, etc, against our mostly 10-13 trait 2-3 retests, etc. The only thing we can do is wear your guy down until we win by attrition. This as you have seen takes forever without the mass chalange. Withi it takes a shorter time. That tactic either way is the same. We trow fighter afte figter af te fighte unil one of us finally takes the targe ddown. The diffeence is instead f one at a time and taking all night, it five on one and take less 20 minutes tops.
Your other opion is don't give us enemies we need to efet only by attrition. Make a big enemy, have him engage mac and Aaron dividing thm from the rest o the group, then have standad enemies 13ish traits fight with the rest of us on faired ground / more equal footing. So the fight doesn't automaticaly default to attrition tactics.
I know the rule of only 5 combatants per victim, but 5 on 1, losing 5 traits, is kinda... Blah... I hate OWOD! I wish we could run OWOD with NWOD rules... Or at least adopt the card system instead of doing RPG with our Phys Traits |
Wow, you've actually helped me consider this point from another angle... Thanks I see some methods now I could have done quicker to speed things up a little better (Basically instead of doing 2 chops against bruce for 2 different shots, just do a Mass Chop every volley of shots... Makes sense!) All in all, I'll definitely try to have NPC's make mass challenges against 1 target to quicken the antagonists side of combat. Also, using 2 different groups and splitting them up amongst the ST's (Combatants and Support Units) would probably also reduce wait time. This is some pretty good progress thus far
In all honesty, if OWBN did allow us to use home grown rules for challenges (Using the NWOD Mechanic with Traits + Abilities) I'd be convincing, bribing, black mailing Ilana with everything I could 
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix
OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock |
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Charles Rockledge
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 515
Location: What do you mean "location"? I'm right here!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| (Basically instead of doing 2 chops against bruce for 2 different shots, just do a Mass Chop every volley of shots... Makes sense!) |
I think so yes. If the two shots are from two seperate snipers both shooting at mac in the same round (3 seconds) they indeed can be handles simulateously.
| Jonny Reload wrote: |
| All in all, I'll definitely try to have NPC's make mass challenges against 1 target to quicken the antagonists side of combat. |
Remember the pc's aren't always the protagoniss, and npc's antagonists. The agressor is the antagonist in the fight, the defendes are the proagonists. ...Actually it doesn't matter, it's two sided. mass chops. It speeds comat on both sides of the equation.
... ... ... dude, don't me IC reget teling you OOC time saving methods. If the enemy employes superior attrition tactics agains us (all 5 snipers shoot an mak in a round on purpose for example [though, after last nights display I reasonably expect them to do just that, but just as example]), we know how to defend against that tactic too when it is used on us. But I will be hestitent to teach you the anarch phalanx manuvers if suddenly all the angels magically become aware of them and how to counter them even before the IC world has even seen any of them in action.
_________________
"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check. |
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inblack83
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 398
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: |
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PHALANX!!!
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Alura
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Support the PHALANX!!! |
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