Under The Rock

Jonny Reload · Joined: 12 Mar 2010 Posts: 107 Location: Bronx, NY

Ok, as we've all experienced, mass combat takes STUPIDLY long in the Old World of Darkness rules. Basically it boils down to the more players, the longer it takes to resolve a combat scene exponentially.

(1 player = 5 minutes, 2 players = 10 minutes, 3 players = 20 minutes, etc.)

And god forbid someone asks for a rules clarification, that's about 5 - 20 extra minutes right there. My post here is to ask you folks how can we fix things and make combat better.

My personal thoughts on this is to just NOT have everyone jump into combat, especially the less combat active PC's. As some have mentioned that they wanna show their support to Clan and Sect... But sometimes you could do that much easier by being good at what you do and giving support or back up like that. There are 2 main ST's and Narrators we have that can watch challenges away from us or run scenes away from the more populated scene. There is no need to for everyone to be in the mix of things, ESPECIALLY with the heavier combat characters.

This puts a strain on the ST's to try ease up on combat since the heavy hitting antagonists have to pull punches rather then killing everyone EXCEPT for the high XP characters. Some people have asked me to tone down the antagonists, which basically allow the high XP characters to simply walk on what ever I'd throw out for plot.

At this point I am completely open to suggestions and recommendations as to what to do about fixing this situation as well as making combat go quicker. Start the postings! Very Happy

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-Marcus Giovanni
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"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock

Zachary cage · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject:

one theory is to split the groups up as per suggested however i thought. why are they in the same area. group one is in one building. group two is in another building pherhaps 2 to 6 miles away. it can possibly effect the other side due to phone calls and such but it also allows the non combat characters to do what they specialize in. such as smooth talking or in my case hacking. or figuring out and building electronics to help out group one.
heres an example
group one consists of heavy hitters such as mac and aaron cross. group two consists of the not so heavy hitters. group two has the task of either getting information or a device to help out goup one that is delivered via ghoul so there is no time bubble even. the device arrives when the st with group one decides it does

what do you think?

Jonny Reload · Joined: 12 Mar 2010 Posts: 107 Location: Bronx, NY

That suggestion does give 2 huge benefits...

1, it allows players to not take up the combat ST's time with information questions that hold up the challenges.

2, players not at the scene should know everything that's happening since.... There not there (even in Astral Projection, you can't know everything that the combatants know)

So far this seems to be something I'd push for Ilana to do when we get into major combat.
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc

"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock

inblack83 · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 398

Or you sit people down, in order of who goes, yell at people who are disruptive and threaten to GNC them if they don't shut up, give players 30 seconds each to declare actions (which is 10x the amount of time your pc actually has) and keep moving quickly.

I know people didnt like it when i did things that way, cause i had to be mean, but i dare anyone else to get 15 people to listen, co-operate, and function a combat smoothly by being nice and giving them candy.....

Smile

Zachary cage · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject:

gimme a reeses and ill do frekin backflips. ::note i cant physically do them so it ensues hilarity for all::

Zachary cage · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject:

another reason i say this is also so you can seperate difficulty settings in a matter of video game lingo. easy to normal is group two. hardcore is group one. ya dig? therefore your not getting people to get one shot dead. and also some of the lowbies get some glory too

Alura · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 369

Sometimes even the noncombat characters want to be in combat. We also need to train the new vampires how to handle themselves when faced with combat.

In my day the Old Man took a vampire and a werewolf, locked them in a cage and say go.

One of the old solutions was to only have no more than 5 Pcs per mass combat.

This made it hard for characters who wanted to be in the combat but weren't a part of the 5.

I do agree with dividing the combat into two smaller groups however. This doesn't mean that the 800 point vampire might be playing with the 100 point npc and vice versa. It's fun to overcome challenges. Sometimes it's also fun tearing things to shreds.

Mass chops are an idea as well. Everyone who is going at a certain time declare your action Swiftness I'm doing such and such. Then have all swiftness actions happen at the same time as one chop. Call traits and retests accordingly.

Ilana · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 74 Location: handbasket

I have to admit I want to go back to Bruce's way. I will be the mean ST with an actual stopwatch if need be. I know people will be mad at me, but it makes combat move and everything happens as the STs and players need it to.
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Zachary cage · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject:

well my idea was more along the lines of the first group can still have combat. (because nothing goes according to plan) but were just chucking ideas out there because im an idea whore that must be heard. but yes there will be lowbies going with the big guys as well as that is bound to happen. but somehow i feel like no one is getting out of H&H alive from that scene lol. i kid i kid. but seriously its something that is at least worth giving a shot. it might work out better in some situations to alleviate stress. the small the group the faster it goes and the happier people are the less they forget what they did last and easier it is to manage. there will still be massive combats with everyone in it. thats unavoidable. specially with hunters crashing through skylights screaming get down. but its worth considering for certain situations

Jonny Reload · Joined: 12 Mar 2010 Posts: 107 Location: Bronx, NY

Mass Chops can't be used for shooting a target, it ass raped the mechanics of a fair fight and would be horrible if used against players as well.

Ugh.... I'm trying not to be the asshole ST I use to be because players died.... A lot, and it's not because I was being an asshole, I just used superior tactics then them and the last thing a game wants is an ST always killing PC's.

Sometimes you need to recognize when your character is over his head in terms of challenge ratings, if not and me going back to my old Nazi-ST ways, you'd be making a new character and I don't wanna be that strict Sad

It's looking like one way or another, the ST's are gonna have to do something the players don't like Sad

The stop watch does sound like it'd prevent me from killing tons of players mercilessly though.
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc

"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock

Ilana · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 74 Location: handbasket

I will now fix my statement. By Bruce's way I meant line people up by order of celerity and give people 30 seconds to declare. I also want to make it easy. This way I will say all those with celerity shake your fist at me and those people will throw a mass challenge with me and it will make things move.
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Jonny Reload · Joined: 12 Mar 2010 Posts: 107 Location: Bronx, NY

Ilana, how do you do Mass Challenges when 3 players go after 3 different targets?
_________________
-Marcus Giovanni
Orator Pro Silenti Etc

"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death"
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

OOC: Nick Vidakovic
AST for Under the Rock

Alura · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 369

It's still R/P/S. Just different numbers and different retests.

Ilana · Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 74 Location: handbasket

No, it's a challenge per target. Let me clarify.

Targets:
Hunter1
Hunter2
Malkavian

Players:
Juan
Al
Mike
Booth
Bruce

Me: Who is burning for celerity? *groups people according to level*

Okay now who is your target?

*Juan points to Hunter1, as does Mike*
*Al points at hunter2 as does Booth*
*Everyone else goes for the Malk*

The attcks and such then go as normal. You only throw mass chops when you have to. If everyone with fleetness picks the same target in the same round and the thing is dodging, throw a mass chop for it. If you don't need to, don't do it.
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Aaron Cross · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 198 Location: In your mom's bed

HSorry late to the party... but you don't need to be a Nazzi when running combat. (Sorry buddy) try my method. Pass the "its your action 'stick' once you get people in order. If you really want to be cool, add a slit in the top and make 3 color coded cards. (Alacrity- green) written on it in black marker. (Swiftness-yellow) ( legerity red) (normal blue) ( rage 1-x purple)

So St passes stick to Mac who has the most traits and goes first. Mac passes it around to Aaron and alura and William. Then normals the St replaces the card in the top and hands it to Charles who has the most traits and goes first in normals Charles passes to v who passes it to Billy. Then swiftness St changes card and passes back to Mac who gives it to Aaron....

Next round rage...
same sequence

St places rage card in. And holds ( he is playing garu) rage 1-x. Then changes the card and hands to Mac on alacrity, who hands it to Aaron.... its soo straightforward it Can't fail....

Oh what action are we on??? Oh yeah red... it says legerity on it... duh....

Forgot one... end of round.. grey...

Oh when can I vanish???

Oh can I go yet?

Lastly you may write on one card the beginning of round rules so new players know what they can do. Blood for traits. Will refresh. Blood for xyz...
Maybe even write a surprise card for surprise round, outlining basic house rule on surprise..

-Maksim.
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