Under The Rock

Alura · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 369

I can honestly say it's very easy to walk into another game and get 'kewl powers'. Everyone seems to have every power of everything, a teacher for everything including every level 5 power you can think of. Every time I'm at another game people offer you 'stuff' for free. Often times I wonder what's the catch, but there rarely is one. It makes me wonder why anarchs haven't been wiped out or why anarchs don't share as freely as the cam or the sabbat. I've definitely heard too many cam having tentacles of the abyss and it really just makes you wonder. I've definitely heard stories of people just showing up to other games and having Wither powers the next day without anything special happening. There is just a spread the aids mentality in the other two sects, or at least in other games that isn't here that just doesn't exist in this game. I could definitely walk into another game and come back with a whole mess of level 5 powers, and here I've been here 5 years, and I don't even believe I've had the opportunity to learn even one. Maybe it's the genre or maybe it's utr, but I definitely know that some people could come in here with a character not even built that long ago and gnc the entire game - if there wasn't npc or staff interference - with level 5 disciplines in everything.

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:12 am Post subject:

Well, that's not the happy medium either. That's the other end of the spectrum and broken in its own right. The happy medium compromise I think would be spreading level 2 powers, and not neccesarily in 'everything' but in some more things than we can now. Even now, there's no reason 'Heighten senses can't spread through the population to help us fight in shrowd. If there are combo's to mimic the effect of unarmed agg + stat damage, and they are available, that would be equally as useful. The 'kewl powerz' bit though is only one aspect of the overall problem.

The problem is 'anarch genre' itself holding us back rather than advancing us forward; across the spectrum. The genre has stagnated IMHO because everyone tries to adhere to it instead of change it. Recently we've seen gangrel, leave and then reurn to the camarilla, we've seen assamites join the camarilla, we've scene an official cease fire betweent the camarilla and the sabbat. Folks have been changing there genre a bit form the origonal WW 19'90's setting. We've seen factions emerge in setite society, new 'magic' be invented for old tzimitze, etc.

Yet how often when trying to imrove the lot of anarchs with new innititives here there and everywhere do we encounter: "but anarchs don't do this/Have never done this" or "that's too cam" or "that's too sabbat" or "we're anarchs not cam", or "we're anarchs not sabbat". As if these two 500 year old sects are somehow responsable for creating the institutions within them rather than appropiating them which have existed for thousands of years.

I think we should judge institutions independed of which sects practice them on their own meritsm and if they are desireable institutions, incorporate then into the status perfetus. Cabinet system is superior even though the cam have a conclave. Phalanx combat tactics are superior even though sabbat have packs.

'Anarch genere' keeps us hiding between the perpetual conflict of the two other great sects rather trying to emerge as a great sect ourselves. We fear the corrupting influence of power and so seem to shun it in faver of superior numbers instead. This is one kind of power, but let's look at all the kinds we are missing out on:

Elder Bias: Most anarch are meant to disdain the elders. The last time we went genre on that, the masons walked away outright for a time nd are only now comming back. While I do want us to able to defed ourselves without automatically having to rely on them, nevertheless they do represent 300 years of experiece and wisdom. Anarchs should get over shunning elders and apprecite at least that much about them.

Clan Bias: Most anarchs are though to also have to a deegree abandoned the concept of clan in favor of indepence form their structures and for gangs. Clan ties though are a damn useful resource. A source of current events at the very least, as well as a source of knoweledge.

Anti-Intellectualism: Knowledge is power, yet anarchs have a reputation for being dumb.
-Why re we so lore-poor?
-Why don't we shop for current events from clan nosferatu.
-Why are many 'learned' abilities so hard to come by: These days who really can justify living without at least one dot in computers; nevermind political and socio-economic philosophies. Paco has no excuse for not knowing why a republic is superior to a syndicated commune.
These are all seperate forms of power than knowing some more disciplines.

Anarchs should not be loosing sect members to the cam and the sabbat because individuals prefer the and protection of the monolith or the action of the sword (offensive action versus continually defencinve actions). These sects should be loosing members to us, because we can provide those things too if we only bothered to get over it (stale old genre)) to grow and adapt and change our ways.

We have the opportunuty to possibly spawn a 3rd anarch revolt. One that's IG rather than backstory. One whose seeds can be sewn in the soil of the Bardonia Barony of Hudson Valley. One that can set an example to other anarchs. One that shows how the 'bandellero' version of anarchy is just as archaic and outdated as the camarillan monolith. We can forge a free state that truly is great. A power to be reckoned with in it's own right as a domain in the global setting.

We could have done this years ago, but we consitanty refuse to grow beyond the 'limits of anarch genre'. It's time to stop trying to be like 'other' anarchs in OWBN and emerge as a possibly unique faction. One that knows to use what works regardless of whoever else may or may not be using it; and one that actually 'chooses' to place the advancemet of the cause itself over trying to enjoy all of the liberties ourselves that we have't yet really won from the opressors.

The greater we become the more our freehold areas can actually have total liberty. The boundary warding gangs though need to get over it, and consent to things like:
the central authority of the cabinet actually superceding independent gang authority in certain circumstances.
A chain of command for millitary action in which gangbosses and/or enforcers are the captains, and each can take the lead in intra territorial actions, but when cross territory onflicts occur, there must be an aknowledged general. Order is power too.

At the end of the day, disciplins while being only one amongst many forms of power is still a form of power, and yes, amassing power in general to use as a tool in achieving greatness does apply to disciplines as well as all of the other forms of power.
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FayeRowan · Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 194 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

While I agree with nearly everything you're saying, I don't think there's any need for an anarch-wide revolution or emerging as our own sect. Like I said before, there are a lot of interpretations of the anarch genre, perhaps Rockland/OC just has to have it's own revolution to embrace another interpretation of it's own sect. There are plenty of games out there where the anarchs work together and share just like you proposed in your post.
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inblack83 · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 398

Grab a copy of the Anarch LOTN.
SInce the topic of this thread is blood bond, not the 50 other points brought out, and show me in that book where killing another anarch or diablerie is more of a crime within the genre than bloodbonding, and i'll eat my foot.

-Bruce L.
HST UTR
OWBN Anarch Sub Coord 2+ years

FayeRowan · Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 194 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

So...should we all copy/paste the rest into a new thread to get those issues acknowledged and discussed?
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Charles Rockledge · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject:

inblack83 · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 398

Your copyright is wrong, it was published in 2003 with all the revised Books.

Bloodbonding someone, IS WORSE then killing and diablerizing, in the eyes of the Anarch genre.

This is the genre in the book, published by White Wolf, that we play in. Your personal interpretations are very nice, and well spoken Drew, but they are not in fact factual, and a lot of you and Mike's cases about what you have heard are in fact few and far between.

If you play in a Sabbat game, and you say that Violating a Ritae is ok based off circumstance or is sometimes acceptable, YOU GET KILLED.

If you play in a Camarilla game, and you challenge the word of the Prince because you don't like the 3rd Tradition, YOU GET KILLED.

If you get caught bloodbonding someone, even if they are willing, in the Anarch Genre, there will be severe repercussions. Just to note that.

Charles Rockledge · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject:

Your copyright is wrong, it was published in 2003 with all the revised Books.
The file you gave me of LotN primary was 1998, the anarch guide specifically is 2003 Even so, it's nearly ten years, and OWBN has it's own genre packets, can't we fix what we don't like? At all?

Bloodbonding someone, IS WORSE then killing and diablerizing, in the eyes of the Anarch genre.
Because anarh philosophy has been that it is slavery and the removal of somenes liberty; liberty being the main point of the anarch movement.
My Philosophy is that you're not enslaving me if I am offering myself in the fist place. You're especially are not ensaving me if we are only talking about one trait, and not the full bond. At best we are just establishing an intimate friendship. Bruce, I happened to BE bonded to Francois and... is it Richard Levy. I may enjoy to play the masons puppet, but it's because I agree with their philosohy. I've never felt like their slave.

This is the genre in the book, published by White Wolf, that we play in.
Not exclusively though. We play under OWBN genre rules too? WW stoped making new Old World of Darkness cannon awhile ago, but OWBN still updates its IG content? If the assamites can go cam as an example, there's no reason the Anarchs can't lighten up a bit in favor of survival on the libertas versus survival conflict.

If you play in a Sabbat game, and you say that Violating a Ritae is ok based off circumstance or is sometimes acceptable, YOU GET KILLED.
If you play in a Camarilla game, and you challenge the word of the Prince because you don't like the 3rd Tradition, YOU GET KILLED.
These two are not free sects. They don't really let you make your own decisions anyway. Even so, in the case of the camarilla, there is a reason I'm a reformer rather than a disloyal oppositionist. I believe the camarilla can be changed too. Is it not a part of the overall goal of the reformer to influence the camarilla into no longer being an organisation that actually needs to be rebelled against? That is the plan for victory in the revolution from the reformer perspective? It started already even. One brujah prince tried to take his domain into a rebublican system too. A conservative toreador arranged praxis against him for it. The desire to modernise is there at times within the camarilla.

If you get caught bloodbonding someone, even if they are willing, in the Anarch Genre, there will be severe repercussions. Just to note that.
Those other two sects have hiarchies with folks in charge of administering consequences based of their half-millenium old ideologies too. Anarchs police themselves. This is the issue. If the we don't actually mind, and in fact agree its a good idea even, why would we administer consequences?

It will end up comming down to on high npc's administering consequences in spite of public opinion to the contrary, and for no good reason accept to maintain the genre. That makes the genre less fun, not more fun, to be a part of. This is where the happy medium comes in. There needs to be a compromise between preserving genre and allowing players to enjoy the type of character they actualy want to play; and compromise between preserving the right aspects of old genre versus advancing fresh new genre.
_________________
"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check.

FayeRowan · Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 194 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

Well I know I'm being ignored anyway so I can say whatever the heck I want. First off, you saying that there is one literal interpretation to the genre and the White Wolf writings is incorrect at best. It's like reading the bible and telling people they will go to hell for wearing garments made out of more than one fabric. I could rant, but it's not worth it, I'll simply point out the first line from any roleplaying game ever.

The Golden Rule
Have fun.
Maybe you're breaking a "rule" from abook, a magazine article or web page. If you're having fun, don't worry about it.

Now, you might retort that that doesn't work in organized play, but it does. Maybe not in your game, but in organized roleplaying in general, storytellers/DMs/GMs are encouraged to use the rules and backstory to make the game more fun, and to be flexible as long as the consequences of your game do not negatively affect the overall game balance or inter-game issues.

And now, a meme.

If you get caught bloodbonding someone, even if they are willing, in the Anarch Genre, there will be severe repercussions. Just to note that.
So....we get to kill Francois, Jade, and most of the other powerful NPCs? Sweet.
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Charles Rockledge · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject:

Well I know I'm being ignored anyway so I can say whatever the heck I want.
Sorry. I don't mean to be if seems like I am. You sort of were agreeing with me and I'm more the sort to post retorts to disagreement, but I've been reading you.

First off, you saying that there is one literal interpretation to the genre and the White Wolf writings is incorrect at best.
I'm arguing the White wolf writings may have become a bit incorrect as time has past and the org grew it's own canon. I think anarchs can do better in the world of darkness than we have done these past 500 years, if only we can leave some of the origonal genre behind, and move on in our own direction; one that we figure out as we go IG/IC, but where we are allowed to travel down different roads without being blocked by the genre saying 'no, we're anarchs'.

It's like reading the bible and telling people they will go to hell for wearing garments made out of more than one fabric. I could rant, but it's not worth it, I'll simply point out the first line from any roleplaying game ever.
Yes!

The Golden Rule
Have fun.
Maybe you're breaking a "rule" from abook, a magazine article or web page. If you're having fun, don't worry about it.
Ouch. I'm usually on the other side of these arguments with Megan about the importance of maintaining the rules versus being too easy going.
_________________
"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check.

FayeRowan · Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 194 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

Charles I didn't mean you were ignoring me, I just noticed I wasn't mentioned in the "convincing arguments" by Bruce. The literal interpretation was directed at him as well, as I agree with you that the rules are flexible, not a cult-based religious writing.
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Don't be offended by my frank analysis, think of it as personality dialysis Wink

Alura · Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 369

If we want to discuss this and other points IC, I would be more than willing to on another page of the forum. I would probably even enjoy it. *Gasp.*

wiggs · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject:

Blood bonding... It is awesome all anarchs should do it... Like jean louie lol I miss march's shenatigans...
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or even
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Charles Rockledge · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject:

Me too. Jean-luis was so Anarch too. I'd never of expedited of him.
Bobbie Bazooka wasn't my favorite character; but he had antics too.

@newer players
Bobbie mooned Sid Razz

_________________
"My Girls is clean and kind spirited".
"If you hurt them, I am going to kill you slowly."
-Insert humanity check.

Eric · Joined: 30 Mar 2010 Posts: 255

Wow Drew. That's the first time if ever seen you post a normal post. Unlike some 40 page, 15 paragraph academic paper that I keep seeing...
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OOC - Albert R. (Al)
Enforcer to the Custodians
Elder Brujah of the East Coast
Baron of Rockland and Orange County